The Saturn: Full build log, LOTS of audio, tons of pics :)

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Btw, here are fixed links to the vids...

My dad decided to drop by and have his first listen to the saturn......lmao...

http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSCN0404.mp4

Lil hairtrick of the judge's wife...keep in mind the door's fully opened and the driver's window's open :)

http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSCN0411.mp4

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Tore-out the rear-firing air vent 'tube' since it isnt needed anymore...



Cut off tabs I no longer need...



Lil glass action :)





More when it happens :)

[coolnick]

So nobody said anything about the JB weld bracket holding down the batteries? You guys are losing your edge.

[240Jeff]

Originally Posted by coolnick

So nobody said anything about the JB weld bracket holding down the batteries? You guys are losing your edge.

That's what you're here for old timer.

[Funkmaster]

you sit in something that loud with no ear protection??? I hope you like being deaf at an early age.

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Originally Posted by coolnick

So nobody said anything about the JB weld bracket holding down the batteries? You guys are losing your edge.

Meh, since it's just holding down I see no issue with it...and it hasnt been touched in about 5 years now, still works perfectly...batteries cant move the slightest bit.

Originally Posted by Funkmaster

you sit in something that loud with no ear protection??? I hope you like being deaf at an early age.

Ive heard the same thing coming from people in a machine shop working 10+ hour days without hearing protection...*sigh*, if people only understood acoustics and how the ear reacts to them...

(not saying it doesnt damage hearing...just saying that there are other things to hearing loss than stuff just being loud...im much better off in my car full-tilt for periods at a time than in the machine shop...not joking)

[Funkmaster]

I didnt say there arent worse things for your ears, but youre being foolish if you underestimate the permanent hearing damage youre inflicting on yourself. I have no problem with loud music, or loud stereos. Just wear headphones or ear plugs or w/e when youre blasting it. You dont see people going to gun ranges with no protection and the average gun shot is around 120-160 db.

[stang99gtv8]

I REALLY hope you don't put that car at 140-150db's with you sitting in it. I'm sure with this kind of ability you have some understand of acoustics and audiology, but I wonder if you realize not only sound pressure levels, but the over all pressure levels from the vibrations that would be inflicted not only on your ears but the rest of your body from a tuned frequency of 50hz or less being able to go over 140db. Might as well stick your head behind a jet engine with no ear protection and light it up.

Solid work for sure, and doing this for competition is cool, but realize you could really damage your ear drums by pushing this system with you in it minus ear protection. I assume you'll be remote driving this system when peaking it for competitions right?

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Originally Posted by Funkmaster

I didnt say there arent worse things for your ears, but youre being foolish if you underestimate the permanent hearing damage youre inflicting on yourself. I have no problem with loud music, or loud stereos. Just wear headphones or ear plugs or w/e when youre blasting it. You dont see people going to gun ranges with no protection and the average gun shot is around 120-160 db.

Decibels arent everything...frequency has a ton to do with it. Low frequencies are far away from your ear's resonant frequency(ies) and have less effect on your ear drum (ear drum is less responsive to these sounds)...this is why I wear hearing protection at work, at the gun range, and also in my shop when dealing with routers etc...because those sounds do cause more damage than lows like in my car.

If you saw a 'chart' of hearing sensitivity (energy that's actually transfered to the ear) on a human ear you would realize what I mean...

It'd look somewhat similar to this but I doubt it'd be quite as extreme of a slope on the high and low ends...but still a rough view of what im talking about.



Just like a speaker/any surface or item, the ear will react differently to certain frequencies and ear abuse will follow along that chart.

Originally Posted by stang99gtv8

I REALLY hope you don't put that car at 140-150db's with you sitting in it. I'm sure with this kind of ability you have some understand of acoustics and audiology, but I wonder if you realize not only sound pressure levels, but the over all pressure levels from the vibrations that would be inflicted not only on your ears but the rest of your body from a tuned frequency of 50hz or less being able to go over 140db. Might as well stick your head behind a jet engine with no ear protection and light it up.

Solid work for sure, and doing this for competition is cool, but realize you could really damage your ear drums by pushing this system with you in it minus ear protection. I assume you'll be remote driving this system when peaking it for competitions right?

Thanks. And last year I was at 152.1db @ 39hz sealed on the dash legal/certified, probably 155+ on music with the windows down (gains quite a bit with windows down).

And yes, I use my remote from outside the car during competitions unless I'm bassracing...then I'm inside the car.

[stang99gtv8]

Half of that chart idea is right, but the chart you really need to see is this one:



Notice that the low frequencies are lower on the chart, but not by a lot. Also as a side note notice the upper mid range being a little lower for most people, one reason that EQ settings for many people sound ideal in a U pattern. The human ear hears frequencies by vibrations (obviously). The lower the note, the slower the vibration. The problem here is that you don't reach a point of much lower hearing loss with low frequencies for high SPL until you hit the nearly inaudible range, somewhere around 30hz and below when it really starts to drop off. If the ear can hear it, it's vibrating, and 140db to the human ear at 30-110hz is absolutely damaging. It can take less than a few seconds of exposure to levels that high to cause permanent damage.

It may be the case that you've now been exposed to it so long that you really don't notice it anymore after the damage has been done. You don't hear those frequencies day to day so you don't really feel the effects until the subs kick in, which makes you want to hear it louder, which does more damage. Yes it's true that low frequencies don't bother people as much, and have the potential to do less damage to the ear, but any sound frequency you can hear is vibrating in your ear canal, and hitting 140-150db at your ear in an audible range is certain to cause hearing loss. Your usual audible range is around 30 in the normal outside conditions.

In summary, be careful doing that kinda stuff and make sure you wear some kind of earbud plugs at the least when running over 130db in the car for more than a few minutes.

I'm not an doctor but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

[Funkmaster]

Originally Posted by stang99gtv8

I'm not an doctor but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

I lold.
OP:
Call an ear Dr. and ask him if what youre doing is causing permanent hearing loss. It might not be as bad as other things, but like I said dont fool yourself into thinking its ok to blast bass at 150db 18" away from your ears.

[hksdsm11]

Originally Posted by Pioneer~Saturn

And yes, I use my remote from outside the car during competitions unless I'm bassracing...then I'm inside the car.

40 roll?

[Kevin Doe]

WTF is bassracing?

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Bassracing is holding a range of decibels on music (averaged) for a 30 second run. You want to have the highest score within that bracket without busting out of it.

Originally Posted by stang99gtv8

Half of that chart idea is right, but the chart you really need to see is this one:



Notice that the low frequencies are lower on the chart, but not by a lot. Also as a side note notice the upper mid range being a little lower for most people, one reason that EQ settings for many people sound ideal in a U pattern. The human ear hears frequencies by vibrations (obviously). The lower the note, the slower the vibration. The problem here is that you don't reach a point of much lower hearing loss with low frequencies for high SPL until you hit the nearly inaudible range, somewhere around 30hz and below when it really starts to drop off. If the ear can hear it, it's vibrating, and 140db to the human ear at 30-110hz is absolutely damaging. It can take less than a few seconds of exposure to levels that high to cause permanent damage.

It may be the case that you've now been exposed to it so long that you really don't notice it anymore after the damage has been done. You don't hear those frequencies day to day so you don't really feel the effects until the subs kick in, which makes you want to hear it louder, which does more damage. Yes it's true that low frequencies don't bother people as much, and have the potential to do less damage to the ear, but any sound frequency you can hear is vibrating in your ear canal, and hitting 140-150db at your ear in an audible range is certain to cause hearing loss. Your usual audible range is around 30 in the normal outside conditions.

In summary, be careful doing that kinda stuff and make sure you wear some kind of earbud plugs at the least when running over 130db in the car for more than a few minutes.

I'm not an doctor but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

*Most music I play/demo is 35hz or lower peaks...my setup is much lower-frequency than just about any other vehicle in the competition lanes*

The chart doesnt go down to 30hz or so lol, the slope would be more exponentially decreasing at that point I'd think.

But at any rate, I seriously doubt 75+% of all of the statements about hearing loss according to decibel levels etc, especially when making a blind "this db at this amount of time WILL cause permanent hearing loss"...but at 2hz, this will literally have no effect on your ears at all.

"It can take less than a few seconds of exposure to levels that high to cause permanent damage.":...I have listened to a buddy's truck playing 160'ish db music @ 30hz (and his truck doesn't meter for crap for how loud it is) or so for several minutes, probably more like 15 minutes and I was just fine afterwards...just a little out of breath because it moves so much air but all-in-all I was just fine and had no effect then nor now. Over time and consistent exposure most days then, yes, I wouldn't disagree at all that hearing loss would happen (a god amount of it would be caused by the mids/highs as well, playing those higher freq's)...but these statements claiming permanent hearing loss from a single event listening to an audio setup are total bull in my eyes, not true at all....if you went and sat in his truck the same as I did (well, most people bail out of his truck shortly) for many minutes and then went on with your life I would guarantee that you wouldn't have the slightest ill-effect to your hearing in the short or long term...

I'll be safe though :)

[DEL SLW]

holy fuck.

i'll stick with actual racing and "goin' fast"

[whitedime]

Did someone say bass fishing?

[S14Daver]

Not even really trying to hate, but that Saturn is going to vibrate itself into a pile of parts lol. Either way it's well done I suppose... Going fast >

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Originally Posted by S14Daver

Not even really trying to hate, but that Saturn is going to vibrate itself into a pile of parts lol. Either way it's well done I suppose... Going fast >

Thanks, but it's been very loud for many years now, nothing new for it :) ...it'll be just fine, it's got tons of deadener, welded supports in the ceiling with birch and fiberglass and now the floor is pretty much indestructible...I plan on moving onto the doors eventually, making them very solid.

[Karlen]

Quikcrete, household insulation and wires outside the car. Rofl

[Pioneer~Saturn]

Originally Posted by Karlen

Quikcrete

Can you find me a more cost effective way to put down a dense layer that level's out the floor that I can then glass over?...

Originally Posted by Karlen

household insulation

Again, find me a more cost effective way to fill voids that does as good of a job...the competition-audio world uses so much of the Great Stuff it's not even funny.

Originally Posted by Karlen

and wires outside the car. Rofl

Fused on both ends and covered by panels that they fit into...instead of cutting up the interior+firewall more just to have them inside the car...it's unnecessary when they went so perfectly the way I ran them.

In conclusion: *sigh* If only you knew, young grasshopper...If you only knew.

I've noticed the handful of people saying ignorant things on here have nothing to show as far as installs/work...love it.